By: secretsquirrel on 3/9/10
I am trying to figure out why these two split in the first place. Since “it wasn’t a choke to where she was gagging.” it shows restraint and compassion on his part. That makes me think that there is still a chance for them.

Squirrel advice: If you can't handle a relationship, you can't handle a breakup... stay single and do not reproduce.
We have enough kids running around the countryside having to endure their parent's dysfunctional personalities.

By: atlascollapsed on 3/9/10
I'm so glad so few people actually utilize their right to be silent when arrested. Life would be so much more bland if they did.

By: LookHere on 3/9/10
Shared custody? how sad for the child. I agree Squirrel some people are better of not reproducing.

By: therealtruth on 3/9/10
Someone better yank that gun permit from him! And soon!
My heart aches to think kids are around this sort of violence. Do they have any domestic abuse classes or therapy for kids subjected to this? They should.

By: NoteTaker on 3/9/10

This is so unfortunate, for both the parents and the children. I surely do hope that all involved can respectfully and lovingly resolve their issues, especially for the sake of this boy.

By: secretsquirrel on 3/9/10
The thing that amazes me is that the guy needs a permit to carry a weapon but not to use his 'gun.' How pathetic.
Regardless, in a marriage/relationship involving 'adults' I have little or no sympathy for either the attacker or the victim. They each had the opportunity to assess the wisdom/health of their choices prior to entering into the marriage/relationship/night of frolic or whatever term is applicable. The kids never have a choice.
NO kid should be subjected to this sort of thing. Further, these situations do not suddenly 'occur,' they develop. That said, people should wait three years in ANY relationship before they make the decision to even HAVE kids. That, assuming they have the common sense to avail themselves of readily available birth control. I am perpetually amazed and perplexed by "surprise" pregnancies as well. How can you call it a "surprise" when you have two adults who are fully aware of the the potential results of copulation??
In short, I see these situations as the result of poor choices, poor planning/no planning, outright stupidity and selfishness.
Now there is another child out there that will have to endure the mingling of two people ill-equipped to have kids, much less raise kids.
There should be a full assessment of the family dynamics, the child's safety/overall health and a report made to the court with recommendations for the child's well being. Continued monitoring should be in place as well.
Before anyone jumps all over me about my comments regarding the 'victim's' innocence in all of this and my ignorance of the details surrounding their relationship, I do not care about the adults involved whether I know them or not. I really don't. I firmly believe that people need to fully understand the responsibilities of having children and be in a place where they are ABLE to provide everything that child could possibly need BEFORE they swap body fluids. A choice is made at that moment between playing the party animal and being a full time parent. You cannot parent part time. Sorry but that's just how it works.
The real crime was committed long before this event. The real crime in this situation was when these two started having kids.
If that sounds harsh or extreme, so be it. I literally get sick to my stomach when I read about these things and contemplate what these kids are burdened with.
For those who will have a problem with my remarks, go through the archives and look at the names of the people being charged with domestic abuse, those continually in the news for other crimes and then consider THEIR families and experiences growing up... I am very certain you will find that most of them were raised in similar circumstances by similar people which makes the results painfully predictable.
~End of Rant~

By: modelmom13 on 3/9/10
Longest/Lamest comment ever. You have way too much time on your hands.
Sometimes dumb people have children and that is just life. Not all children with broken homes turn out the same way. It is common but not always the case. It is still a choice.

By: bubbles on 3/9/10
This guy interviewed with me looking for work. Glad I passed on him!!!

By: cialunatic on 3/9/10
I find it ironic that someone who calls themselves modelmom would make such a statement like you did at the end. When experiencing an extreme bad environment at a young age, these children are learning things that are hard to overcome until they are adults and sometimes only after acting out themselves. It's sad because it seems that the few that will be able to make a choice are those that have atleast 1 good parent or are pulled out of the situation at a young age. With 2 bad parents and no place to go, I'm wondering how a young child is going to be able to reason enough to make strong adult choices.

By: Mindyourpeace on 3/9/10
The thing is, until you have been in an abusive relationship, you don't know how it works. At least I can give her credit that she tried to get away from it. These people are manipulating, and let me tell you mental abuse is way worse then physical abuse. They go hand in hand, and this is no excuse. Now the law needs to put their foot down and prosecute this person. The sad part is that he will probably never change. Run, run while you can.

By: modelmom13 on 3/9/10
Well first off...my name is not supposed to insinuate that I am the "perfect" mother. I am in fact a model and a mom hence the name "model mom".

And of course a good percentage of these children are going to have a hard and difficult life having seen what they have. But this does not always mean they will turn out the same way nor do they have too. My main example is my father....he had a horrible up bringing with alcoholism and abuse. He is now a father of 5, Doctor, Christian and successful individual. He knew that his family life was not "normal" and strived to find friends who had decent families to spend some time with and concentrating on school. This was his choice. Not everyone makes this choice and that is the problem. Too many people rely on the scapegoat that their parents were that way to they are also and they can't help it. Why do we not feel this way about children who are molested and then turn out to become adult child molestors. These indivduals do not get that excuse nor should they. But all in all it is the exact same thing. Their choice.

By: Geneva_Queen on 3/9/10
If you want to adopt a child, you are screened to make sure you are fit and can offer a suitable environment for the child. If you choose to have your own children, there's nobody to stop you. Nobody to make sure you can provide that suitable home and family environment. You're right, the poor kid could be stuck in this horrible situation for years.

By: NewHome on 3/9/10
SS, I would say that 99% of the time I agree with what you post and even obtain great laughs out of it.....however, you and others are offensive with your comments.

I will agree that there are many children who grow up in environments such as the above and end up having a rough life or worse, repeating the behavior.

To condemn the victim in this case (which is what you have done) is ignorant in itself. Who is to say that the gentleman involved was abusive when they met? Even if he was, it is a cycle of power and control.

I, personally, was involved in a severly abusive situation. I was young, naive and believed it was my fault. The cycle lasted for many years and, yes, involved children, I was young and thought the apologies were sincere, I thought the promises were real.

Eventually, there was a restraining order (which isn't worth the paper it is typed on), we also moved many times to hide (eventually leaving the state). I continued to raise my children on my own and have done an excellent job. My children are well adjusted, intelligent and well taken care of, they know they are loved deeply. We all keep the lines of communication wide open.

I am far from stupid or ignorant. I am a professional with a college degree. What I didn't have back then, was a self-esteem. I also grew up in a "less than ideal" environment, I made the personal choice to obtain strength and so are my children. I can not use my past to make excuses for my future.

Volunteer for the crisis center before you so ignorantly judge a victim of Domestic Violence. You have a right to your opinion, however, as one who went through severe mental and emotional abuse, I can confidently say you couldn't be more wrong.

By: modelmom13 on 3/9/10
"I made the personal choice to obtain strength and so are my children. I can not use my past to make excuses for my future."

I could not agree more!

By: shellbell on 3/9/10
NewHome,

I too was raised in a less than ideal situation. I was emotionally, physically, and verbally abused as a child. By the grace and help of my Lord Jesus Christ, I have been able to be an overcomer. I had to make the first step to want a change but it was hard and I failed miserably time and time again. However, I too am a mom of three children and have a college degree. I have struggled and still struggle with self esteem. However, I believe my parents were a product of their environment as well. It gets passed down from generation to generation.

I think people should step in someone else's shoes before making a judgmental comment. It is so easy to point fingers but there is not a one of us who has not made mistakes or have regrets. Some of us just may have bigger ones.

By: livingsimply on 3/9/10
I see everyone has their own opinion in this situation. Although I have a much different one. I see the only true victim here would be Jay did everyone else fail to read that she has a new boyfriend when in fact these two individuals involved in this situation are married! Did anyone ever take into consideration that this man has stuck by this womens side while she has went through a rough patch and that he stayed by those kids side throughout everything. Now not only has this adult situation affected both of these two adults but now its affected Jays two daughters that are not hers and were not there at the time of the incident and are being questioned by people. On yet another level this women called police at 11pm when the incident occured at 3pm if she was truly afraid would she not have called police right away. Should he have put his hands on her no but there is so much left untold to this story like he turned himself in and was not taken down by police.

By: livingsimply on 3/9/10
not only did the paper leave out that he turned himself in but they left out that he has nothing on his record prior to this. I know Jay and he is a stand up guy people make mistakes!

By: NewHome on 3/9/10
livingsimply - it sounds as if you are close to this situation. However, let me shine some light on your comments.

Jay, is certainly not a victim after on his own, he admitted to what he had done and that his estranged wife had every right to be afraid of him.

As far as her seeing someone else, divorces take time, especially if they are contested. My ex had ours drag on and on just to keep that level of control.

As far as calling several hours after, is it possible she was afraid to call and someone more level headed finally talked her into it?

As far as Jay not having any previous record, I know many victims who under-go abuse for years before they finally build up the strength to call the police for the first time.

As I previously stated, it sounds as if you are much closer to the situation. All we understand is what we've read in the OPP. Domestic Violence is not to be taken lightly, whether it happens once or has occured over a period of years.

By: NewHome on 3/9/10
Also, it doesn't matter whether this woman is seeing someone else or not, that does not in any way, give the accused a reason to put his hands on her.

By: therealtruth on 3/9/10
Once again - the "TROUBLE BROKER" opens up the line of discussion!
Please understand that many get upset and do think of the effect this has on kids who witness and are exposed to situations like this. Being empathetic is not a bad thing.
Hey modelmom - let me guess - you are Blonde too!

By: R_Moore on 3/9/10
I am shocked by all of the comments this story has generated. I have read with amazement the judgment that seems to come pouring out of some of these comments. Some of you pontificate about abuse and its effects, while knowing nothing about it.

First, I hope that most of you realize this story was written by the reporter who went and took information solely from the police reports and possibly court documents that were filed. I know this is how it works because I used to be a reporter for the OPP. The suspect is not interviewed and victims are certainly not interviewed for the story. I am not faulting Wendy Reuer, because that is her job. However, for anyone who has had any issue with law enforcement, you have to realize that police officers also have a perspective and their reports are not always accurate or objective. If you don't believe me, go down to the OPD and request to read the reports for the day. So, please read these "court" stories with a grain of salt.

Also, bravo to NewHome for your insightful comments into the world of abuse and for trying to shed some light on victims in abuse. I, too, have been in a very abusive relationship and I am a professional woman with multiple letters behind my name. Abuse is not a choice that victims make. Often there are no warning signs. Abusers are manipulative and there are usually no signs of the potential for abuse even for years, until something goes wrong. For any of you who want to judge, God forbid that any of your sisters, daughters or mothers (or sons, brothers, etc.) ever find themselves in a situation where they are being hit in the face, choked, told they are worthless, etc. Beware, abuse does not discriminate.

Lastly, I know both people involved and I am not going to speak poorly of Mr. Strader, but I am going to stand up for the victim. She is a fabulous mother, selfless to a fault. I know she will do whatever it takes to make sure her children get healing from this situation. She is intelligent, professional and a hard worker. Not to mention that SHE took in Mr. Strader's three daughters when they were caught in the Illinois foster system. They are not her biological daughters, but she has done everything for them as if they were and is distraught about their possible situation now. So, if anyone's story is going untold, it's hers. Please think before you comment, people, and use restraint. What will happen when the victim in one of these stories is someone you know or love? Will you respond with the same all-knowing venom?

By: donghua on 3/9/10
Well, I suspect a lot of people start out doing okay, then things develop. Violence is the refuge of the incompetent. Let the courts sort this out.

By: Are_you_serious on 3/9/10
We should be asking what can we do as a community to build stronger realtionships with the children in this community violence affects all of us as a community and we need to see past that.

By: Are_you_serious on 3/9/10
Oh by the way there is too a victim for those that don't belive there is a victim that little boy is a victim he didn't ask to be here or have a dysfunctional family either

By: alittlebitofsugar on 3/9/10
R_Moore, great post. There are a number of professional posters on this site (many who do not even live in Owatonna) that have an opinion on everything. If they only commented on things in which they had a working knowledge, they would have to find something else to do with their time.

As far as influences in life..... Sometimes it's a teacher, or a minister, or a coach, or neighbor, or maybe a Big Brother/ Big Sister etc..... that provides the guidance that gets the child through.

By: livingsimply on 3/10/10
I am taken back by a comment for what reason would ANYONE need to know the specific location or situation those poor children were in before they moved to minnesota. I truly feel that some things should be kept quiet. What a sad situation. My heart aches.

By: secretsquirrel on 3/10/10
R_Moose - Modelmom - Others:
Your opinions and positions are very well laid out. I will differ with you on a few points but understand and appreciate where you are coming from.
If some of us are considered "professional posters" I will be checking my mailbox shortly after this comment to look for my paycheck from the OPP.
I DO have a bit more than a working knowledge of the issue and I also see the kids as the constant victims of this sort of situation. Modelmom put it well in saying that such behavior after a certain age is a choice.
R_Moose makes excellent points about the accuracy/veracity of the reports/articles, Yet, when that is all you are left with, that's what you comment on.
One thing we all observe here is the consistency of people 'close' to the subject of the article in question who will leap to defend someone they feel has been treated unfairly in the story whether through absence of background or omission of facts. That too, I have experienced and frequently try to take that into consideration when opening my mouth (keyboard). We are NOT professional reporters thus are not held to the same standards of journalistic integrity that the reporters and the OPP are. Everything I offer is simply OPINION. That's not to say that I will never be way off base. I am not judging the people, I am judging the situation and I get really tired of it. You read an article of this nature FAR too frequently in the pages of the OPP. It's nauseating.
You see, I spend many volunteer hours working with and mentoring kids born of stupid people making babies.
Not one of those kids had a choice in the matter. My goal with each and every one of them is to prove that they can overcome their backgrounds, experiences and their parents shortcomings through the appropriate assignment of responsibility. Theirs AND their parent's and choosing to do something much different with their lives rather than inherit their legacy of dysfunctional and destructive choices.
Few people posting here have had the luxury of perfect parents, comfortable lifestyles or advanced education. Most have learned what they know through experience and applied those experiences to their decisions about finances, relationships and life to their advantage.

Refuse to BE a victim. Establish yourself as financially, intellectually, emotionally and psychologically independent before entering into ANY relationship. Practice cynicism. It's not nearly as unhealthy as people like to think it is. You assume the car salesman is out to screw you but they guuy trying to get into your undergarments ISN'T?
If you are incapable of meeting this criteria, keep your pants on.
I spent more than six years getting to know my spouse before marriage and waited an additional TWO before having kids. After that we had kids popping out like mad. It's been the most rewarding aspect of my entire life and continues to be after 3 decades.
There is nothing religious about it, no idealism, no magic sunsets. Just two people determined to be sure of something and insisting on providing a stable and healthy environment for ourselves BEFORE we brought children into the mix.
I agree that abusers are manipulative and that they sometimes schmooze their way past some of the better defenses we have but the vast majority of the time, they will screw up and show their hand if people simply take their time because a real abuser is not going to be the most patient person in the world. Their need to control their environment is too great for them to resist their instinct to do so.
Anger over little things. Anger while driving. Anger after a few drinks. Petty jealousy.. Yeah, I am obviously not a psychologist but I am also not an idiot. So many people rush into parenting because they think with their hearts or nether regions rather than using their brain.
Again, if that sounds harsh, I am not going to apologize for it. Abusers do not wear T-shirts emblazoned with "Let me make your life miserable." Yet, they can hardly hide their nature over the source of several years and various situations. Does your BF/GF come home from work and constantly point out the failings and flaws of others while presenting themselves as the only one with the 'right' answer? Do they complain about being unfairly treated or insufficiently respected/appreciated by coworkers or managers? Do they seem to feel that rotten things just "happen" to them? Are they weak in any way? Needy? Pout when others pay attention to you?
There are millions of little telltale signs that are tuned out. Individually, they mean little. Cumulatively they mean the world.
Smart people make stupid choices.
So, in my experience, the adults are the idiots and the kids are the victims.
Incidentally, for those concerned with my time, the above took all of about four minutes sans spellcheck.
Have a beautiful day all. :)

By: Mindyourpeace on 3/10/10
The fact is, no matter the stress, no matter the situation, and no matter the consequences....... YOU CAN NOT USE PHYSICAL VIOLENCE to solve your problems. People forget about that. You have a right to be angry, doesn't mean you can hit someone.

By: modelmom13 on 3/10/10
Nope, not a blonde so sorry :)

By: secretsquirrel on 3/10/10
Mindyourpeace - I only wish you could sell that concept to the morons in Washington DC... IJS
LOL @ modelmom's hair color thread. ;)

By: NewHome on 3/10/10
SS - thank you for your response and for explaining your insight. I also applaud you for your volunteer work. I will agree that the children are the victims in every situation of mental, emotional and physical abuse.

I will strongly disagree about your use of the word "stupid". People make "bad" decisions, but that doesn't make them "stupid".

After years of cognitive therapy I understand the choices I made or thought processes I had were emotional ones (ex. thinking that the beatings would stop if I had another child, thinking they were my fault etc.). That certainly didn't make me "stupid", nor am I an idiot. I was a victim, as were my children. We are now Survivors. The physical scars will never go away, the emotional scars developed into PTSD for all of us, but through communication, counseling and supporting eachother we will get through that too.

By: therealtruth on 3/10/10
RMoore-
"First, I hope that most of you realize this story was written by the reporter who went and took information solely from the police reports and possibly court documents that were filed. I know this is how it works because I used to be a reporter for the OPP. The suspect is not interviewed and victims are certainly not interviewed for the story."

Agreed - this always seems to be a "problem". Many times just one side of the story is told and plenty of blanks are left out. And then you have people jumping in with opinions not knowing the whole story. Very frustrating for those that know the whole story.
Actually the thing that brought me to OPP was just that sort of thing - a one-sided story printed here where I investigated the other side and found it disturbing that the other side of the story was never mentioned. Not sure whether it was a political/personal choice, one that could end up with you losing your job lest you upset the largest employer in town. Unfortunate - but it happens.

By: modelmom13 on 3/10/10
Oh so many sides to the story but here is the bottom line. Men should NEVER under ANY circumstances put their hands on a woman. EVER. Regardless of the fight or situation. And the men that do are spinless cowards. BOTTOM LINE.

By: R_Moore on 3/10/10
SecretSquirrel, I understand that you are not professional reporters and that you are simply posting your opinions. I definitely respect that. I'm always game for a good, respectful discussion where the playing field is on relatively even ground. I chose to post my comments because I felt there wasn't equal playing ground for all involved in the prior comments. And, as you know, my comments are just my opinion, too. Good for you for your volunteer work in the community. If everyone took the time to give back to our community, we would all be a lot better for it. Oh, and I completely agree with you that we see this type of story in the OPP far too often. That was part of my shock to see all of the comments. I wasn't sure why people would choose to comment on this story when there are so many like this printed in any given month.

To livingsimply, I can only imagine who you are. But I think your first two posts reveal a lot. Your comment that some things should be kept quiet is ironic to me since you were the first person to post specific details about this family's situation. Nobody knew that he had other daughters until you brought it up. Nobody knew the two were married until you said it. And you want to somehow justify this "stand-up guy" yet berate the victim? I REFUSE to keep my mouth shut when it comes to that. But, there was nothing I said that puts these children in jeopardy now. I certainly didn't reveal anything more damaging than you did.

By: secretsquirrel on 3/10/10
Bottom line: Extremely sensitive issue, with a great deal of passion all around. I presume everyone opines with the best of intentions but (as I have oft admitted to) sometimes passion gets in the way of reason and we get our collective hackles up.
The fact of the matter is that everyone's position on this is in some manner correct and every single comment lends deeper insight into a world and a place that no one wishes to be in and certainly would do all they could to remove children from.
No matter what anyone here feels or believes about the comments posted, it would be fair and reasonable to state that these comments only exist because people actually care and there is nothing wrong with that.
The interesting part of this forum that continually fascinates me is the predictable path and process that takes place.
Frequently the thread begins with a wry comment or slam regarding the article/subject. A few more join in and either pile on that wagon or they will make it a bit more serious. The next step is outrage at the act or at the comments about the act.
After that, everything starts to evolve into some sort of reasoned discussion because people begin to actually explain what brought them to their conclusions and why they feel as they do about the subject at hand.
It's a painful and often annoying process but if you look at virtually any thread relating to personal trauma or kids, you will find this pattern.
Like a good argument, it results in further enlightenment for all and forces people to actually think about the subject. I see nothing wrong with that no mater how nasty it starts out.
R_Moore (sorry for the R_Moose this morning, it was pre-coffee and I have a thing for cartoon characters LOL) your comments alone added a great deal to the direction this thread took and as you reflect on where everyone came from, take a look at where they are.
Anyway, for as stupid as it sounds coming from me, I always enjoy this heated threads for the very reasons I just outlined. I learned something.
Modelmom: Anyone putting their hands on anybody is wrong unless in self defense or the defense of others. Although male on female abuse is more conventional and societal awareness is much higher, you would be amazed at the number of women who either physically/emotionally abuse their man and the number of women who will do everything in their power to elicit a violent response from a man because they believe that a "real man" has no breaking point. Trust me, I have known several in my life and they were jettisoned from my life the instant such behavior occurred. No gender has the market cornered on evil behavior. Unfortunately, the result is predictably the same.

By: modelmom13 on 3/10/10
Yes....SS this is not surprising to me at all. I am aware of women that do that but then it is the man's choice to then walk away. Engaging in it and putting your hands on someone is still not okay. A woman cannot defend herself fairly against a man, no matter how strong she is. There is still a reason why it is illegal to hit anyone especially a woman. It is still legal to yell and scream at someone. Because that person can easily just leave the situation physically unharmed.
Nor do I believe that a woman has the right to hit a man either.

By: secretsquirrel on 3/10/10
modelmom: I see where you are coming from but the violence and the injuries that result from it are really not the issue at all. It's the mentality, absence of self control and lack of character preceding the incident that are at issue.
As for the reasoning of a woman being unable to defend herself, I tend to understand it on the surface but it falls short of sound reason when applied to such things as:
Chasing cars on the freeway until the pursuer gets nailed.
Playing with loaded guns until you shoot yourself.
What you propose would be a reasonable answer when it involves at least two reasonable and capable people. Most of these situations do not. Or, as you pointed out, a person is unable to physically remove themselves from the conflict (too small, too weak, the abuser is physically larger and overpowering them etc.). Abusers have no regard for chivalry, social norms or even great table manners.
Women want equal rights yet they need to accept equal responsibility. This sort of thinking harks back to whether the man should leave the seat up or the woman should leave the seat down. The truth is that they both possess the ability to put it in the position they need it in. Personally, I close the whole thing up because I really have no compulsion to see what's in the bowl even if it's just clean water.
That's not bashing women, victims of abuse or diminishing the importance of the situation.
I have never allowed my kids to brutalize anyone or each other. Ironically, they abstain from such behavior for several reasons (self respect, respect for others, disdain for drama) one of which is their silent concern that if they ever do I will kick their little tails over the horizon.
That edict does not remove their right to defend themselves with like force but their first required avenue of resolution is to simply walk away as you suggest wherever possible. If it is NOT possible, and the attacker/abuser will not permit them to leave, they have been instructed to beat the person senseless by any means available and leave as many permanent marks as possible as a reminder to a moron. Screaming is a viable option and may or not may not bring help but the simple act of drawing attention to the situation will either scare the abuser enough to back off or simply make them wild with rage. It's a coin toss. Again, people are generally not considered rational when they are strangling someone.
I may sound hypocritical as heck here but sometimes that is the ONLY language these thugs and morons understand: A good talk out behind the wood shed. When all else fails it is not the defender who is making the choice, it is the attacker making that choice FOR them.
In any event, there's got to be a way for this stuff to end. Kids can eventually get help but they shouldn't even be placed in a situation where they NEED to avail themselves of such help.
In my own world I was raised to believe that you never hit a woman. Women behaved like ladies. The good guy always rode off into the sunset with his white hat and the "damsel" happily lived out her days with the man she loved. That's not how life is.