By: secretsquirrel on 7/25/09
Health insurance? Who the hell can afford health insurance?
Last year, I reverted to the same policy my parents did when I was a kid... no insurance for my family. The only three valid reasons for a visit to the doctor are:
1. Broken bones (noses, fingers and ribs do not count).
2. Anything requiring stitches that dad cannot stitch at home.
3. Sports physicals but only because the school does not believe that just because you can survive a severe beating by your father you are fit enough to participate in their tough athletic regimen.
All visits are paid in cash at the time of the appointment. NO unnecessary tests are permitted (ALL tests are unnecessary).

My family's version of homeopathic medicine:
A broken pelvis means a month on the sofa.
A broken vertebrae means a month on the sofa.
An ear infection is treated with peroxide and lots of brandy.
Strep throat is a sissy malady.
If you're not bleeding profusely, you're malingering.
A broken nose is no worse than an ingrown hair (suck it up!).
If none of the above work, the family spade will be employed to bury your ass because you're too weak to live anyway.
My point being that an entire generation survived and saved this country from speaking German or Japanese and they HAD no health insurance.
The great "risk" is that doctors and health care professionals will be out on the streets en masses should people stop going to the doctor every time their kid farts or makes a whining noise.
Costs are driven by consumer abuse, doctor/patient fraud and greed on all sides.

By: atlascollapsed on 7/25/09
Man you are so uncompassionate SS. Or is it incompassionate? Just for this post alone I sentence you to a month of empathy training with the DFL representative of your choice.

Than again like the MASH theme....suicide is painless.

By: pookah on 7/26/09
you guys are funny...

SS is on the money. ac is on the money in the humor side.

I am working on a report for distribution on alternatives. I will be submitting to Tim Walz.

By: atlascollapsed on 7/27/09
Pookah, I've already written congressman Walz but after going through this terrible peice of legislation ask him how we can take serious a piece of legislation that states...."The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax imposed by this chapter...."

That's page 203 lines 14-16. You cant make this stuff up. This is a bad bill filled with taxes, exemptions,restrictions, mandates, a severe curtailing of individual liberty and a massive power grab by the govt.

http://edlabor.house.gov/documents/111/pdf/publications/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf

Heres a link to a pretty big PDF if anyone else wants to read it.

By: crazyasever on 7/27/09
He only wants to hear from people who want the bill passed.........Hey Mr. Walsh before you ask for our input maybe you should read it first!!!!!
Are you and the rest of your cronies willing to let your Insurance go and join the rest of us who will be forced to use what is provided by this bill? if not you know my answer.

By: pookah on 7/28/09
I've seen it, ac. The other problem is it will increase the national debt, which, as you hopefully know, means more money supply increases, price premiums elsewhere, that help subsidize the cost.

It's an economic distorter of magnificent proportions. If you do this, you in-effect, destroy the currency (war with Iran will effectively render it useless), and we won't need any health care.

We will be starving ourselves to death because commodities will shoot up and life will become unaffordable.

Well, as long as Mayo "gets paid", which is what Walz is waiting for here, then it really doesn't matter, does it.

What a joke!

By: Brian_Sanburn on 7/29/09
Good stuff ss...LOL.

By: c2000 on 7/29/09
I also contacted Walz and got a form letter back similar to the one above. First the high cost of medical insurance reflects the freebies at the hospital emergency rooms across the country, the long term care for people with incurable disease and the research on heart problems and cancer which are the top problems that people encounter.
Walz wants input on the gov run health care but his mind is already made up.
First of all there isn't 50 million people without health insurance,, that is a figure made up and if you say it enough people will believe it similar to the 50 thousand people a year that die of second hand smoke,,a totally made up figure.
My wife and I pay 1400 a month for health care,, it seems like too much and maybe some type of reform is needed to lower that but it certainly is not Government run health care. The United Kingdom and Canada have this type of health care and it doesn't work,,why in gods name does anybody think our government can do better. I don't want some bureaucrat determining if I should get medical treatment based on my age.
If this passes we will all regret it..

By: Brian_Sanburn on 7/30/09
My guess is that pretty much the only reason Mr. "Walz wants to hear from (me) on health care" is so that he can make the claim that he "listens" to his constituents.

It seems to me that Mr. Walz, like most in his position, is really good at posturing and much less so at living up to the oath of office he took.

By: misanthrope on 7/30/09
When I worked on my MA in Medical Anthropology at the University of Sussex, in Brighton, England, I also worked with a local nursing agency as an "A Grade Nurse". It was part-time and at the time, my sole intention of doing so was extra cash so I could afford to visit Paris.

But what I learned far exceeded any romanticism re: Paris.

I learned alot about English hospitals. And because I was in a nursing agency, I floated to many hospitals throughout the SE of England.

For too long, my friends, co-workers, family, and even acquaintances have asked me to step forward and share my experiences with those who are engaged in the health care debate here in the US. And I was silent. I never really thought that this would become a serious debate in the US; I thought people would do their research, learn, and eventually drop the subject.

Much like I dropped and forgot about my dissertation (which ironically was about the cultural differences in hospitals in the UK and US)-

Obviously, I was wrong.

The very first shift I worked in an English hospital was amazing. The "Sister" showed me around the ward. It was basically 3 large rooms that had several (metal) patient beds in each room; privacy courtesy of a curtain around each bed. I was to take vitals with a manual blood pressure cuff; now, in the US, that means a nice little cuff with a circular gauge on it. Maybe even a nice vitals machine on a rolling cart. In England, it was a large metal box where a piece of metal about the size of a large (farm style) temperature guage popped up. In fact, if I hadn't looked twice, I would have thought that was exactly what it was. There were also glass thermometers floating around; which we had to sterilize between each patient. There were paper machete urinals and paper machete bedpan liners to fit the plastic bedpans. I recorded vitals and intake/output on their chart on a clipboard that was hooked around the foot of the patient's bed. If a patient wanted their head raised in bed, they needed the assistance from a nurse- to help them into a sitting position and then slide the metal headboard to a position of comfort. For nurses to raise a bed, they pumped the bed up by foot. There wasn't air conditioning in this hospital. Nor was there an emergency room or an ICU.

My second shift was an overnight shift at a local nursing home. I was astounded when the nurses and nursing assistants did not change their gloves between each patient during "rounds" (changing diapers).

I worked several shifts at a stroke hospital. Again, 3 large rooms with several patient beds provided privacy by a curtain. In this hospital, there was 1 TV per unit. There was 1 phone at the nursing desk. All of the beds were old fashioned metal beds. The nurse passed medications with a rolling wooden cart; the meds were stored in that cart- unlike the US where meds are stored in a password protected piece of equipment. There wasn't an ICU or an ER in this hospital. It became frightening one night when a man began having difficulties breathing. The nurses did their best at stabilizing him until the ambulance came to drive him 30 minutes away to the nearest ICU/ER. We crossed our fingers and hoped they had an open bed. This was also the hospital where I, as a nursing assistant, taught the nurses how to use a bladder scanner.

In one hospital, which was in the process of closing due to financial strain- (government financial strain), there were 32 patients, 1 nurse, and 1 nursing assistant. There weren't private bathrooms; it was much like walking into the bathroom at a rest stop- you know, stalls. In the morning, the nursing assistant would assist the patients into their chairs and then strip the beds. Each afternoon/evening, the nursing assistant would then make the beds with fresh linen. There were several times where beds were not changed because there wasn't enough clean linen to go around. This hospital was not air conditioned. This was also the hospital where meals were brought up, catering style, but it was the nursing staff dishing mashed potatoes or handing out sandwiches in between assisting patients with bathroom breaks. This hospital did not have an ICU or an ER.

In one hospital, which had an ER and an ICU, I learned about "dipsticking" a urine sample for a urinary tract infection, which is actually something that a lab would do here; not the nursing staff. This hospital was different; each bed had a TV, but each patient had to pay to use the TV/phone. There weren't any private rooms.

Other experiences:

My conversation with a "wound nurse" re: a man with diabetes who had a leg ulcer that didn't heal. When I asked when the man would have an amputation, the nurse explained that the man would never have one- simply because the wound would never heal and even after an amputation, the man would have the same risk anyway.

The patient who had unsuccessfully attempted suicide 3 different times and yet, his health care was paid for by the English taxpayers.

When I needed an antibiotic for a sinus infection, I didn't pay a cent. In fact, my visit to the (nurse) and my antibiotic was paid for by the English taxpayers. Even though I was an American student studying abroad.

In the spring of 2006; there were thousands of nurses laid off in a 3 month period. There were also debates and public forums aimed at ridding the nation of Nationalized Health Service.

My nurse manager (at the nursing agency)had the opportunity to work as a nurse in LA. She explained to me that the nurses in the US were very educated and were exceptional at their skill. She said that when a doctor rattled off labs to an American nurse, the nurse would then know (by the numbers) a course of action that the doctor would potentially take. She explained that in the UK, the nurses had as much experience and education as an American nursing assistant.

There was also a man in one of the hospitals who had a stroke. He was on "holiday" in England when it happened. And because he was in England, England paid for his health care. But because he was not well enough to travel back to Spain, he was kept in England where they continued to care for him at their own expense.

There were rumors that people from other countries needing a new hip would board a plane and upon arrival in a UK airport would then report that they broke a hip upon landing. And the English taxpayers paid for it.

But there was also a private hospital that I floated to. It was actually at one time a mansion. Each patient had their own room. Not only that, but each patient had their own balcony where they could sit on their balcony and watch the horses in the pasture. Each bed had a nice duvet that was washed every day. The food was served by a kitchen staff. The equipment was much more modern: vitals machines on wheels, IV pumps, pneumoboots, beds that had controls on them, a fresh vase of flowers every morning.... and this private hospital had their own private physicians. The hospital paid their staff better. Even I, as an agency "A Grade Nurse", was paid better. And the patients at that hospital had private insurance, which is a rare thing in England.

So how does having a nationalized health care system reduce the health care disparities between the rich and the poor? Or, does in fact, make it that much more of a chasm?

When I tell people this, the first thing that usually comes out of their mouth is, "Well, we're not going to get rid of our hospitals and revert them into outdated hospitals or get rid of our technology and replace it with old stuff.."

No- but the point is that since the NHS was formed, medical advancement/technology, and the overall condition of their hospitals has not improved in England. It is as if the NHS put the English hospitals and English medical system into a stand still. Nothing became better. Nothing was improved or advanced. In fact, as I mentioned previously, thousands of nurses were laid off and hospitals were closed when the government began having financial difficulties.

And the stereotype about the oral care in England is true. But that is only because it doesnt pay to become a dentist in England- so there are fewer dentists and as a result, dentistry and oral care is not a priority. And to those it is a priority, it takes 6 months to get an appointment.

A nationalized health care system in the US would be a grave mistake. And for those politicians who are willing to listen to those who have experienced a universal health care system, I invite any one of them to read my dissertation. And if that is not an option; I'd be willing to break a leg and send them first class to England to heal.

By: singingforjoy on 7/31/09
I'd like to point out the pivitol statement in Mr. Walz's letter:
"As I consider my vote, I am guided by the following principles: (1) if you like the coverage you have, you should be able to keep it; (2) we should pay doctors for good outcomes, not the quantity of care they provide; (3) reform should lower costs and streamline the system; and (4) reform should not increase our budget deficit."
It start with "as I consider my vote" which I take it to mean that if these criteria are not met, the vote is no. If you think there are other criteria to be met, he invites you to get involved and let him know.

By: NoteTaker on 7/31/09

ac,

It's neat to hear someone talk about a piece of legislation with knowledge, having directly read the item. So thanks for sharing with us what you've found.

I'd be really interested in knowing what sources you typically use or can otherwise recommend for research of such topics (bills, minutes, etc.) The ones I use work well for me, I think, but I'm certainly open to suggestions.

Thanks.

By: atlascollapsed on 7/31/09
NT I basically use opencongress.org which is the easiest place to find widely looked at bills and get the either the senate or house file #. For MN bills I go straight to Mn house website which is like house.state.mn.gov and they actually have a decent searchable database once you get used to it.

Reading them isnt always the easiest, but I have a friend in DC who has a govt issued decoder ring who helps me with the trickier issues. Plus I hit alot of both conservative and liberal sites just to keep up on the spin from both sides. I'll a list for you later but it would appear the people at work today have caught a massive case of fridayitis. Maybe Ill just let leave early so that way I can too.

By: Skruttan on 8/1/09
misanthrope, when were you in the U.K (year)?

I would like to inform others that while I do not know first hand how the health care is in the U.K (other than being treated at a MODERN clinic there with the latest technology back in 1983!!!) , I do have first hand experience from other European healthcare. It is just as modern and great as here...nothing like being described by misanthrope. Actually sounds like someone made that letter up to me. Especially making assumptions on how payment for foreigners is handled, you really wouldn't know that unless you were handling the persons claims after. Usually in other countries IF the American has insurance, the health insurance will cover it. But of course if they don't have insurance, it would be hard to recover the money just as here in the U.S.

By: misanthrope on 8/4/09
2005-2006; I was in Brighton, East Sussex England. And none of what I have stated has been made up. As I stated previously, I was a masters student at the University of Sussex, in Brighton England, studying for an MA in Medical Anthropology. My dissertation was on the cultural differences between American and English hospitals- and, I received my MA with merit (so obviously, the things I say are probably not made up).

The hospitals I worked at include:

Royal Sussex County Hospital (which had the ICU/ER)
Brighton General Hospital
Millview Hospital
Nevill Hospital
Southlands Hospital
Worthing Hospital
Princess Royal Hospital (which was the most MODERN/recently updated)
Goring Hall (the private hospital)

Google search for images of those hospital wards; I'm sure there will be more than plenty that "pop up".

Also, skruttan, you were in a CLINIC, not a HOSPITAL. There is a big difference between the two sites. A huge difference.

Also search the BBC news website for information re: layoffs and ward closures due to financial strain in 2005-2006.

And although I never worked in the claims department of these hospitals, I did have first hand conversations and knowledge with those individuals that lived, worked, and paid taxes in England, as well as other hospital personnel. And as a foreign student, I did have questions I needed answered before I sought assistance at a clinic re: finances and payment.

By: RealityCheck on 8/4/09
I think we are forgetting that all that is going to happen with this bill is insurance options for people who currently do not have it. Its not going to force systemic change. That's just a bunch of hooey being thrown out by fearmongering people paid for by big Pharma and Big Health Insurance companies.

By: SportsMom on 8/5/09
RealityCheck, You seriously need a reality check.

By: HappyKat on 8/7/09
SS - right on. I don't even wonder any more why my insurance premiums keep going up when others get a little cold and have to go the doctor to be told the same thing every year...it's a virus, drink lots of fluids and get some rest. But hey it only cost them a $20 copay, and then we wonder why health insurance is so expensive. Somebody somewhere is paying the rest of that bill.

And don't even get me started on the tests. Personally my doctor required 3 expensive tests (not-urgent) of which only 1 would be right. All scheduled for the same day. Meaning I (through increased premiums down the road) pay for all of them. I requested one at a time and wow the one that we started with was right. My childhood doctor, used to say that doctors used to diagnose and then test, but now they test and then diagnose.

There has to be some personal responsiblity in this healthcare system which starts with patients and doctors.

By: Dagny on 8/7/09
"we should pay doctors for good outcomes, not the quantity of care they provide"

So preformance pay is good for doctors, even though sometimes, no matter what they do, people still die because EVERYONE eventually dies, BUT it's unfair for teachers because it's wrong to expect a certain standard of results in what they are able to teach?

Please call me when we've hit the bottom of the logical rabbit hole. I can't take this any more.

By: pookah on 8/8/09
Actually, I have a new strategy... Let the Wookiee win!!!

Spend MORE on health care. GUARANTEE providers their money on SUBSIDIZED insurance cooperatives.

Keep feeding that money machine with US Treasuries. Make those price premiums increase exponentially.

Let the Wookiee Win!!!!

By: pookah on 8/9/09
"Ignore the problem; it'll go away." --- Sam Malone (Cheers)

By: Mech_D on 8/11/09
(1) if you like the coverage you have, you should be able to keep it;

You should be able to keep it and if it is through work you should still be able to pay for it pre-taxed and/or get tax breaks for medical bills. You should be able to search for the best coverage and get the best coverage even if is not through the government program, in other words after the government passes a bill for health insurance I should still be able to have a new health insurance policy written after that date by any health insurance provider currently in your State (Minnesota). You should not have to pay for the government health insurance if you have your own private policy. You should be able to have a rider health insurance policy provided by an insurance provider in addition to the government health insurance policy if you so wish.


(2) we should pay doctors for good outcomes, not the quantity of care they provide;

Do you really think that it is only the doctors that are at fault, look at the health industry at a whole. You get a bill for the same service by a multiple of health providers. Example: Go out and get a blood test and see how many different bills you and/or your health insurance provider gets. Should that not be a flat rate cost to you and/or your insurance provider, and from that flat rate cost it can be divided out to whom ever.


(3) reform should lower costs and streamline the system; and

Streamline see above


(4) reform should not increase our budget deficit.

Reform should not have new taxes and/or fees or reform should not increase existing taxes and/or fees.

By: RealityCheck on 8/12/09
Sportsmom...I know you are, but what am I??? LOL!

Seriously? What is your beef? If you're just going to call names and run, stay off the blog. No wait...let me put in terms you can understand. "Take YOUR BALL and go HOME."

By: singingforjoy on 8/16/09
Event: Town Hall on Health Insurance Reform
Time: 6 – 8 PM; doors open at 5:30pm
Date: Thursday, August 20
Location:Mankato East High School Auditorium
2600 Hoffman Road
Mankato, MN